Subscribe to this blog's feedFollowing the inevitable death of AIDS denialist Christine Maggiore, which I blogged about last week, the Los Angeles Times ran an editorial on Saturday that's well worth reading.
They compare AIDS denialism to other notable anti-science movements in history, from the Catholic Church taking hundreds of years to acknowledge that the earth is round, to our equally blinded-by-religion contemporaries that reject the undeniable evidence of Darwin's theory (now proven) of evolution. Here's their money quote:
In some instances, these debates are interesting but not terribly consequential. But sometimes they are of staggering significance. When the theory in question is about the cause of climate change or AIDS, misplaced skepticism, whether cynical or well-intentioned, can lead to grave results. For years, the South African government joined with Maggiore in denying that HIV is responsible for AIDS and resisting antiretroviral treatment. According to a new analysis by a group of Harvard public health researchers, 330,000 people died as a consequence of the government's denial and 35,000 babies were born with the disease.
I blogged about the Harvard study as well. I can't think of another anti-science movement that's caused this much death.
Like Maggiore, many of the denialists are HIV positive. And just like their anti-Galilean and anti-Darwinian comrades, they hold and proselytize their views with a religious fervor (see the comments section from my post last week). There is no reasoning with them. How can you reason with anyone that attempts to easily explain away the death of their three-year-old daughter, or the deaths of hundreds of thousands of South Africans?
They are our deadly religious fringe. They are our Taliban.
Hey Peter,why not add the people who believe the man made global warming hoax and those who profit from it?
Or those who believe terrorists combatants from other countries should have same rights as US Citizens?
Or those who believe US is the cause of all problems.
How about those Dems(barney,maxine,and dodd) who accused REps and regulators of being racists when they tried to clamp down on FAnnie and Freddie? You remember,the two GSEs that bought up all the subprime crap that caused the destruction of our economy?
Or those who believed Bush caused Katrina?
Instead you throw the Catholic Church under the bus. Nice.
There are fools on each side of every issue through out history.
I agree with your post on denialists.
Jack, please find a good hobby.
And... It would be people like you who perpetuate the stupid ideas that ignorant people have about government, religion and evolution. Evolution has been proven just about as rock solid as the evidence that suggests aliens exist on Mars. Don't use your blog to spread untruths. Words are power, use them wisely.
Hi Peter,
I noticed from your second post that you know Michaelangelo Signorile.
Could you email me at jtdeshong@hotmail.com please so that I can ask you a question regarding an idea I have regarding these AIDS "re-thinkers" or as I call them, denialists?
Thank you,
J. Todd DeShong
I think "anti-science" is the best way to describe denialists. I have known a number of them during the years.
They have mostly died off.
You can't argue the point with them, discuss it intellectually or even converse politely with them on the subject of HIV/AIDS.
But they are never at a loss for words when they wish to force their views down your throat.
When it involves just an individual's choice, they have the right to be stupid. Their choice will determine their destiny.
But, when it involves the life of a child, or of the people of a nation, that is criminal.
Maggiore should have been prosecuted for child abuse at the very least, or negligent homicide if possible.
Too late for that now.
The "Times" editorial hit the nail on the head regarding denialists.
maybe she should have had an abortion? maybe her parents should have had an abortion.
I guess the aids taliban is different than the gay taliban.
Is there a difference between aids denialists and those here who deny you can get hiv from giving someone a headset?
The thought police are out in force. Funny how the people who scream at Bush for listening to conversations between terrorists are the same people who criticize any beliefs different than their own and attempt to criminalize thought.
Really funny how LA times writer uses Aids to validate man made global warming hoax and hope to criminalize anyone who follows the facts and not the liberal doctrine. When will the useful idiots realize that it is impossible for their man made global warming theories to ever be based on anything scientific because of the nature of the evidence? The real flat earthers are those who believe in this farce of man made global warming, the same morons who claimed Bush caused Katrina, who now say the world wide cool temps are either proof there is global warming or their green efforts are turning the tide.
Hi, Again, Peter,
I noticed how vehement you are about these denialists, as I am. I am at a point where I truly believe these denialist need to be held accountable for the myriad of deaths that they are DIRECTLY responsible for! It is for that reason that I am putting all my efforts into bringing them to accountability via the law.
I was hoping that you are also at that point. I, along with two others, one a scientist and one a web designer, are in communication to find a law firm to help in this endeavor. This is why I asked you to contact me via personal email. I whole-heartedly believe that now, with the death of Ms. Maggiore, along with the deaths of over 300,000 S. Africans, is the time to bring this matter to the American Court System.
Please put your words into action with me and others and contact me personally at:
jtdeshong@hotmail.com and let's discuss this very real possibility.
Thank you,
J. Todd DeShong
I disagree with Mr DeShong. This is not a case for the courts. It is a case for the military, the CIA. If we bring them to court, we have to provide habeas corpus and maybe even let some of them loose on bail so they can stalk the stalk our streets and infect good healthy American gays with their vile ideology of hate and destruction.
kill them where you find them I say, just as they want to kill us. But first we need to waterboard them to make them reveal their nefarious plots against public health, as well as the identities of their comrades.
Not one can be allowed to escape. Let's start Project Informer. Inform on everybody who doesn't believe that HIV equals Death, or who refuses to take the life-saving test, or refuses to take the life-saving drugs. Inform on them so they can get abducted and questioned in Syria or Egypt where they are not as soft as the denialist-enabling Mr. DeShong.
HIV=AIDS denialists ALWAYS face poetic justice - the virus they refuse to believe exists smacks them down into devastating illness.
Like Christine Maggiore, they're then left with two choices - take the "toxic" antivirals or die. Those like Maggiore, whose denialism has been responsible for the deaths of others - Maggiore, her own daughter - decide dying is the only option they can accept.
Just think for a moment how impossible it was for Maggiore to be as ill as she was and know it was that bad, that she felt the life leaving from her but could never take the PCP treatment or the HIV antivirals. I'm sure towards the end, she begged to have awoken five years prior - when she still had time to save Eliza Jane's life and her own. She would have retracted her ridiculous position in a heartbeat and she and her daughter would be alive today - living in health and enjoying a long, fulfilled life.
What a waste!
Thanks for this Peter,
Many years ago, I was handed computer disks by a "scientist" friend who told me I was "committing suicide" by taking my HIV meds. After reading all the Duesberg info and other articles he had gathered for me, I was very angry - angry that I had been working my damnedest to learn as much as I could about my own health and how to best manage my condition, making dozens of difficult decisions about medications and treatments over the years, and then to have someone say I was committing suicide?
I wouldn't mind denialists so much if it were just a matter of their own choices, and how they wanted to approach their own treatment - that is their prerogative. It is tragic how much harm can be done by discouraging others from seeking treatment.
Hi Peter,
What's your take on the blogger above who says:
"This is not a case for the courts. It is a case for the military, the CIA. If we bring them to court, we have to provide habeas corpus "
"kill them where you find them I say, just as they want to kill us. But first we need to waterboard them to make them reveal their nefarious plots against public health, as well as the identities of their comrades."
Do you think we should kill people who disagree with current treatment regimens?
Peter,
I"m sorry to double post, but I have a question as a newcomer. What if you're both wrong to some degree? What if Aids is multifactorial and HIV plays a role but requires many other factors to disable the system? Or, what if HIV is many different related particles that have been grouped into one idea? And the various particles aren't effective except when the body is under toxic stress, or unless you are geneticaly susceptible? I mean, there are more than one mainstream ideas for how AIDS is now caused, as far as I can tell on Aidsmap and thebody. So what's the point in calling people who are looking at all of these things "the taliban?" It makes it look like you are highly defensive and afraid.
ps`- thank you for your time in responding.